A Conversation with Dave McShane: Reflecting on 30 years

From my very first project with him over 15 years ago, I never cease to be humbled by the talent and generosity of muralist and teacher Dave McShane. As one of several artists who have consistently worked with Mural Arts for over two decades, Dave has contributed to Philadelphia’s diverse and vibrant communities through his murals while also supporting so many others who enrich our local wealth of culture and connection.

Dave—By The Numbers:

• 300+ Students taught through the Muralist Training Program over 23 years
• 70+ Interns mentored over the years
• 18 Eagles Day Annual Projects
• 250+ Walls painted
• 80+ Projects completed
• 4 Miles of murals created
• 1995 First mural commission with Mural Arts Philadelphia
• 2008 Hired as a full-time staff artist

Dave's Interview

Reflecting on your work of the past 30 years, what does that mean to you?

It’s a pretty amazing thing to have artwork all over the city…it is the world’s largest outdoor gallery. I am a part of an internationally known program, and also have a reciprocal relationship with it. Over the 30 years, I helped build the practice of the community mural process and the way artists intersect with Mural Arts, as one of the people who helped keep making changes to further community mural practice. And I’ve done a lot of consulting work through Mural Arts and the Institute as well. I have contributed to the growth of the program, and it, of course, has also contributed to my growth, skill, and status as an artist.

I grew up in a working class family, and my family, my parents in particular, just didn’t have any real knowledge or experience of what working artists actually do, or they just didn’t see how an artist could make a living. I am grateful for the fact that I raised a family doing this and have artwork all over the city and that my family and my extended family and friends can see and appreciate my work so easily.

Dave values being a part of the Philadelphia artists community, contributing to a larger movement of artists who are transforming public space, working with the community, and collaborating with others creatively.

Any regrets?

I wish I had documented all my work better! I’ve always taken photos of my work, but the quality has been inconsistent—especially during the early days of digital photography. Traditional methods were higher-quality at that time, but everyone was asking for digital. But, I do have every sketch I’ve ever made. 

Behind Dave in his studio is a wall of shelves holding bins for each project with kids’ drawings from workshops and mural designs. He must have thousands of kids’ drawings archived!

What are the other important aspects of having a career like this?

I feel like I’ve been so lucky in all I’ve gained besides what I leave behind.  It’s all the relationships I’ve made that are important.  I mentored, taught, and worked with artists over the years, and still do, not to mention all our colleagues at Mural Arts who are either artists or creatives in their own work, who also do project management or other jobs that support mural making.  Plus, all the people I just meet In the neighborhood. It’s kind of like you become part of this community for a while, and that’s particularly true of the school communities that I have worked in. I am so lucky through the Eagles projects to get to just be in one place for a long time and build relationships, then I move on.  But some of those relationships continue.

What motivates you? What has kept you doing this work for such a long period of time?

What motivates me is the fact that I get to create something that is a tangible end result. And it’s not just me solo; it is collaborative, particularly with regard to school projects. I love pouring over the kids’ drawings and putting them in the murals. I like having all these people help paint – I like all the different aspects to it. What could be better than waking up in the morning and making stuff every day? I’m making murals that are making change, working with groups of people, and collaborating.

Dave recently received an email from a former student of the William D. Kelley Elementary School, where he painted a mural in 2013. This high school junior is getting into art and hoping to learn more from Dave about his approach and techniques he used in creating that mural. Not only did Dave respond immediately with his design references and inspiration, but he has already invited the student to help out with his next project!

I’m always in admiration of all of the different skills that you bring into the work that you do. It’s such a complex and immense responsibility. 

It is a broad skill set. Part of that took a lot of work, like the communication skills. I’ve done lots of work to expand my skills, like the anti-racism work and all the DEI training. If you’re going to go in the community, you have to have some understanding of how oppressive society can be and how it targets certain groups, right? You need to have an understanding of how their experiences and challenges may be different than yours. 

I am always working on my communication skills, but also trying to take in so much information and distill it into one design because every community mural includes so many voices. It feels like there are a million people who have a million ideas, and somehow, it has to be distilled down to one image when all is said and done; that’s the hardest part—designing. I find it the most nerve-wracking because it’s got to be right from a lot of different standpoints. I don’t want to make any mistakes that might be misread. I want to try to cover all the key things that the community has shared. I also have to be true to myself as an artist and make something that I like and feel is valuable—a work of art that is going to represent both the idea and the neighborhood well, but also myself as an artist.

Lead Muralists need to be proficient in so many different skills. Strong design, communication, and listening skills, as Dave said, are important, but also organizational skills, collaborating with others, running workshops, presenting your work, accepting feedback from others, managing assistants and interns, emotional intelligence, and knowing how to produce and install a mural.

You play an important mentorship role, and you’ve trained probably hundreds of muralists over the years, so I’m wondering if being a trainer has also helped you grow in your own work? 

Well, I certainly learned from engaging with a lot of younger artists. I’m inspired by people, their art in particular, what they make. Young people’s work, and particularly contemporary artists coming into this from the street art perspective, there’s just something so fresh and boundless in what they do, they’re not as constricted. They’re not trying to be strict academics; they’re thinking much broader. My wife Eurhi and I have had our kids working with us on projects alongside interns and assistants and have created a sort of extended family of burgeoning artists. They bring so much energy and excitement to the work. And that’s another whole thing: having a life partner who does the same thing has made our lives really, really rich.

I want murals to be done from all different viewpoints and all different esthetic styles. So if I can help somebody do their thing, that’s pretty cool.

Looking forward to what’s ahead?

I want to keep doing what I’m doing, but I do want to try to rediscover myself as an artist and have a little bit better work-life balance in terms of mural work versus independent studio work so that both of those things can flourish more. I definitely need to slow down and take better care of my body. I do think of other, smaller, fun, non-outdoor, non-permanent projects too. I’d love to see all the billboards in the city replaced with a whole array of artist’s non-commercial artwork. It would be so cool to have amazing works of fine art on the highway, and other public places where thousands of people pass by regularly. Art, made by the community of artists, expressing themselves about how they want to see the world. Maybe some of it is social change stuff, but maybe some of it is just a personal vision of beauty—their own vision of what a beautiful or ideal world can be.